So I was just sitting here thinking about turn in and the factors that can make turn-in more difficult. I know that if you give the bike some throttle while in turn it will help to stand the bike up. The same can be said about the brakes. So I was thinking that while diving into a turn, would it help the bike to lay over faster if I was to give the clutch a half or quarter pull? I'm thinking this will keep the rear tire from engine braking in the beginning of the turn which will fight the bike from leaning. I also think that this will allow me to better modulate power input to the rear tire and make for smoother exit since the throttle is quite choppy on liter bikes.

Is there any validity to this theory?

Aside from switching to a 180 rear tire, I'm looking for ways to get the bike to lay over faster.

I'm not saying I would be closing off the throttle completely, but just modulating the power through the clutch.

I think I have seen the pro's do this through their onboard cameras.

Want to lay that porky Honda over quicker........

Get Wheels! 8)

SoI gather from your response that you have no clue as to what I'm talking about?


:lol:

Seriously though, I want an answer to my question. Where is NYCS1000 when you need an answer?

i don't think it's a very good idea. you'll have to be very delicate with the clutch, and i'm assuming that you'd feed it back out as soon as you got the bike leaned over...a little abrupt on the feed out and you're going down. could upset your weight bias front/rear as well. i don't have much race experience (at all) but have you tried sliding your hands further out towards the end of the bars? that'll give you more leverage for counter-steering and you should be able to drop the bike in faster. just thinking out loud.

you should only use your clutch as a fine tuning instrument with the technique you are after.

it's almost like having two throttles if you think of it...
you can tweak the trottle and apply what power output you have at the counter sprocket with the clutch however varingly you feel you need to.

watch the races, on broad cameras you can learn alot from that. when I went to keith codes school we stayed away from the clutch and went for throttle control. When I hit the track I never use the clutch in turns. Just my 2 cents.

watch the races, on broad cameras you can learn alot from that. when I went to keith codes school we stayed away from the clutch and went for throttle control. When I hit the track I never use the clutch in turns. Just my 2 cents.
ditto.
But I do use the clutch for non conventional street riding at times. didn't know if that's what B-T was after though. :shrug:

Yup, what you're saying gnt. I'm not really looking to do this at the track where you get to learn the turns like the back of your hand. I'm looking to do this on the street where 90% of the turns are blind and the apex is most times very close to the entrance of the turn. Even with the chain adjusted to 1.125" of up and down slack, the trottle is very snatchy (I just said snatchy :lol: ). I bet I could throw the bike into the turn faster if I could remove some of the snatchyness via a small pull of the clutch. It would be like having a crude slipper clutch. I'm not looking to stop rear wheel lockup since that's not an issue. I'm just thinking that if I can lessen the amount of engine braking at the instant of turn in I could lay it over a bit faster. Then when the bike is settled to the turn I could let that little bit if clutch back out.

I'll give this a try next time I go out. I'm sure it will take some time to get used to so I will start slow and build up to what I'm going after.

i'd imagine that it would be easier to perfect on a bike with a cable clutch...better feel. i don't know if you've ever ridden a V65 Magna before, but this shaftie has a shitload of driveline lash. if you even think about opening or closing that throttle in the turns you'll have to shake a turd out of your jeans. gotta get a sportbike.

Shake a turd out of your jeans!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahaha!!!!!!!! Good 1 :lol:

We'll see how it goes with my theories. Someone has to prove them and Turbo is being of no help :P

i'd imagine that it would be easier to perfect on a bike with a cable clutch...better feel. i don't know if you've ever ridden a V65 Magna before, but this shaftie has a shitload of driveline lash. if you even think about opening or closing that throttle in the turns you'll have to shake a turd out of your jeans. gotta get a sportbike.

no doubt eh?
I had hydraulic on my superhawk and it would give failry decent feedback and when I rode cbrjimmy1krr's bike it was even better than I anticipated hydraulic and all.
I actually did work the clutch in a couple of turns since I've never been on them and it was at night and I didn't want any abrupt transitions at some crucial parts of the turn.
it worked just as well as my bikes I ride with cable clutches.
on;y bad thing about cable clutches and working the clutch is the cable gets some slack in it from the heating of the plates where as the hydro clutch compensates and the feel will be the same at all times.
kinda nice but you don't know if you're overheating them buggers then...

I didn't like the engine braking on my old 900 so I turned up the idle to 900-1000. Was supposed to be 600 rpm.

Currently with my 954 it idles at 1000-1100. Don't notice as much of a difference since it is FI vs carb.

Dave

I have been trying to go into the turn completely off all power pulling in the clutch. Very smooth in with a lot of speed. I try to come back on the power as soon as I can. My problem is if in a low gear, in power band I am upsetting the bike coming out (jerky). If out of the power band I am losing acceleration coming out. Trying to do the Keith code 40/60 if anyone read his book.

Pulling in the clutch ever so slightly as to control the application of power, with all of the things going on is really asking a lot in my opinon. But then again I buy motorcycles, people don't buy me motorcycles.

only use one finger when trying that technique Nemesis. unless you're already doing that...

i honestly never thought about using the clutch like that. when i engine brake i try not to let off the throttle all the way so it's not so lurchy (is that a word :lol: ) when i get back on it. i still get caught off guard with how lurchy the off throttle/on throttle can be from time to time, but i have been able to get real smooth lately and it's like being on a steel roller coaster..... smoooooth.

i'll give that a try next time i rip it up BT.

When I first took my 954 with the new motor to the track I had a lot of trouble getting back onto power through the corners. I started riding the way I ride my F2, once I initiated the turn I was right back on throttle. I was spinning up and sliding all over the place. I then started waiting longer and using less throttle, but as soon as I started to open the throttle the bike would get upset. Even the slightest throttle was causing unhappy movement. I started using the clutch to ease in power, but knew I was going slower than before, just safer. Now I get back to posetive throttle before I turn and things seem much more stable. I had good sucess last time out and very little drama running my usual lap times. I definitely think throttle is the key and the clutch is a band aid.

throttle control is most definitely KEY.

when i started focusing on what my right hand was doing with much ineptitude, i said to myself "you gotta start working on that throttle control" the better i got, the faster i got....with fewer poop spilling instances :eek:

I started using the clutch in corners on accident,about a month ago went into a corner a little too hot layed over about 45 degrees let off throttle to compensate(what i did was let off too damn much)bike diped the when I reapplied the good stuff it all went to hell.so on the next corner started using the clutch to regulate the force of throttle engagement (I guess is what you'd call it).A large consern of mine with this is say your leaned over pretty hard you 1/4-1/2 clutch it bring youre rpms up but you drop the clutch to hard on accident then where are you?Field,fence,mail box,or leaned over damn near knees down with the front wheel off the ground(my personal favorite)I do belive you'd rip the staples outta youre seat on that one.I guess what Im gettin at is to me its all about rider comfort, what feels right to you ?Do you get good results from it?Just my humble non riden opinion.